Backup one server, restore to another

I frequently restore the backups of my production server to my standby/test
server. They (the servers) aren't completely identical, however. Production
has 3 logical disks for OS, data and logs while standby has only two disks.
The real problem though is the time it takes to do a restore using EM. It
seems that I have to restore the full backup then each transaction log
separately. It would be very convenient to be able to specify (using add
device) the full backup and all of the logs I want at once, then only have
to change the paths to the database and log files one time. I've read
through BOL but it is silent on this issue. Is it possible through EM? Or
should I be looking at a third-party app from e.g. Red Gate?You could write a SQL script that implements the WITH MOVE option of the
backup command. Enterprise Manager is a nice tool, but I haven't figured
out how to automate a series of mouse clicks. For repeatability, you have
to go to T_SQL scripts.
--
Geoff N. Hiten
Senior Database Administrator
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
"Ron Hinds" <__ron__dontspamme@.wedontlikespam_garageiq.com> wrote in message
news:e3vH%23OT0GHA.4648@.TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>I frequently restore the backups of my production server to my standby/test
> server. They (the servers) aren't completely identical, however.
> Production
> has 3 logical disks for OS, data and logs while standby has only two
> disks.
> The real problem though is the time it takes to do a restore using EM. It
> seems that I have to restore the full backup then each transaction log
> separately. It would be very convenient to be able to specify (using add
> device) the full backup and all of the logs I want at once, then only have
> to change the paths to the database and log files one time. I've read
> through BOL but it is silent on this issue. Is it possible through EM? Or
> should I be looking at a third-party app from e.g. Red Gate?
>

Backup one server, restore to another

I frequently restore the backups of my production server to my standby/test
server. They (the servers) aren't completely identical, however. Production
has 3 logical disks for OS, data and logs while standby has only two disks.
The real problem though is the time it takes to do a restore using EM. It
seems that I have to restore the full backup then each transaction log
separately. It would be very convenient to be able to specify (using add
device) the full backup and all of the logs I want at once, then only have
to change the paths to the database and log files one time. I've read
through BOL but it is silent on this issue. Is it possible through EM? Or
should I be looking at a third-party app from e.g. Red Gate?You could write a SQL script that implements the WITH MOVE option of the
backup command. Enterprise Manager is a nice tool, but I haven't figured
out how to automate a series of mouse clicks. For repeatability, you have
to go to T_SQL scripts.
Geoff N. Hiten
Senior Database Administrator
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
"Ron Hinds" < __ron__dontspamme@.wedontlikespam_garagei
q.com> wrote in message
news:e3vH%23OT0GHA.4648@.TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>I frequently restore the backups of my production server to my standby/test
> server. They (the servers) aren't completely identical, however.
> Production
> has 3 logical disks for OS, data and logs while standby has only two
> disks.
> The real problem though is the time it takes to do a restore using EM. It
> seems that I have to restore the full backup then each transaction log
> separately. It would be very convenient to be able to specify (using add
> device) the full backup and all of the logs I want at once, then only have
> to change the paths to the database and log files one time. I've read
> through BOL but it is silent on this issue. Is it possible through EM? Or
> should I be looking at a third-party app from e.g. Red Gate?
>

Backup of Standby databases

I'm running an offsite replica of our database using Log shipping.
This is working very well, but I'd like a way to take a backup of the
replica without
breaking the log shipping. Making a backup at the hosting center and copying
to our development hq takes over a day.
I've got the full database at our shop now, being updated constantly with
log shipping. A backup operation on a database that is in standby mode
fails. I can restore ... with recovery, backup, but then I can't continue to
log ship.
Even though it really isn't documented, "backup database dbname with standby
"= 'xxx.tuf' " works fine. I've used it to switch my secondary to primary
and so forth. I'm wondering if I can
restore ... with recovery
backup the database
backup with standby
This would give me a backup, and put the database back into standby so it
could continue to apply logs, but I'm pretty sure that the backup operation
would write to the log and cause the LSN's to get out of sync, and so the
next log restore would not happen correctly.
My other idea is to stop the server, copy the database and log file, and
then reattach these copies as a new database name. I'm pretty sure this idea
is going to work, but I have to stop my server, and it is a bit manual.
Is there anyway to backup a database while it is in standby or no recovery
mode?
thanks
I doubt what you suggest would work, because the LSNs would be out of sync.
Most people use the normal backups of the orginal database, and do not worry
about backups of the log shipped db.. Will that not work for you?
Wayne Snyder, MCDBA, SQL Server MVP
Mariner, Charlotte, NC
www.mariner-usa.com
(Please respond only to the newsgroups.)
I support the Professional Association of SQL Server (PASS) and it's
community of SQL Server professionals.
www.sqlpass.org
"et" <et@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:96F275B6-D92F-46E9-99E3-996DCB59EADC@.microsoft.com...
> I'm running an offsite replica of our database using Log shipping.
> This is working very well, but I'd like a way to take a backup of the
> replica without
> breaking the log shipping. Making a backup at the hosting center and
copying
> to our development hq takes over a day.
> I've got the full database at our shop now, being updated constantly with
> log shipping. A backup operation on a database that is in standby mode
> fails. I can restore ... with recovery, backup, but then I can't continue
to
> log ship.
> Even though it really isn't documented, "backup database dbname with
standby
> "= 'xxx.tuf' " works fine. I've used it to switch my secondary to
primary
> and so forth. I'm wondering if I can
> restore ... with recovery
> backup the database
> backup with standby
> This would give me a backup, and put the database back into standby so it
> could continue to apply logs, but I'm pretty sure that the backup
operation
> would write to the log and cause the LSN's to get out of sync, and so the
> next log restore would not happen correctly.
> My other idea is to stop the server, copy the database and log file, and
> then reattach these copies as a new database name. I'm pretty sure this
idea
> is going to work, but I have to stop my server, and it is a bit manual.
> Is there anyway to backup a database while it is in standby or no recovery
> mode?
> thanks
>

Backup of Standby databases

I'm running an offsite replica of our database using Log shipping.
This is working very well, but I'd like a way to take a backup of the
replica without
breaking the log shipping. Making a backup at the hosting center and copying
to our development hq takes over a day.
I've got the full database at our shop now, being updated constantly with
log shipping. A backup operation on a database that is in standby mode
fails. I can restore ... with recovery, backup, but then I can't continue to
log ship.
Even though it really isn't documented, "backup database dbname with standby
"= 'xxx.tuf' " works fine. I've used it to switch my secondary to primary
and so forth. I'm wondering if I can
restore ... with recovery
backup the database
backup with standby
This would give me a backup, and put the database back into standby so it
could continue to apply logs, but I'm pretty sure that the backup operation
would write to the log and cause the LSN's to get out of sync, and so the
next log restore would not happen correctly.
My other idea is to stop the server, copy the database and log file, and
then reattach these copies as a new database name. I'm pretty sure this idea
is going to work, but I have to stop my server, and it is a bit manual.
Is there anyway to backup a database while it is in standby or no recovery
mode?
thanksI doubt what you suggest would work, because the LSNs would be out of sync.
Most people use the normal backups of the orginal database, and do not worry
about backups of the log shipped db.. Will that not work for you?
--
Wayne Snyder, MCDBA, SQL Server MVP
Mariner, Charlotte, NC
www.mariner-usa.com
(Please respond only to the newsgroups.)
I support the Professional Association of SQL Server (PASS) and it's
community of SQL Server professionals.
www.sqlpass.org
"et" <et@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:96F275B6-D92F-46E9-99E3-996DCB59EADC@.microsoft.com...
> I'm running an offsite replica of our database using Log shipping.
> This is working very well, but I'd like a way to take a backup of the
> replica without
> breaking the log shipping. Making a backup at the hosting center and
copying
> to our development hq takes over a day.
> I've got the full database at our shop now, being updated constantly with
> log shipping. A backup operation on a database that is in standby mode
> fails. I can restore ... with recovery, backup, but then I can't continue
to
> log ship.
> Even though it really isn't documented, "backup database dbname with
standby
> "= 'xxx.tuf' " works fine. I've used it to switch my secondary to
primary
> and so forth. I'm wondering if I can
> restore ... with recovery
> backup the database
> backup with standby
> This would give me a backup, and put the database back into standby so it
> could continue to apply logs, but I'm pretty sure that the backup
operation
> would write to the log and cause the LSN's to get out of sync, and so the
> next log restore would not happen correctly.
> My other idea is to stop the server, copy the database and log file, and
> then reattach these copies as a new database name. I'm pretty sure this
idea
> is going to work, but I have to stop my server, and it is a bit manual.
> Is there anyway to backup a database while it is in standby or no recovery
> mode?
> thanks
>

Backup of Standby databases

I'm running an offsite replica of our database using Log shipping.
This is working very well, but I'd like a way to take a backup of the
replica without
breaking the log shipping. Making a backup at the hosting center and copying
to our development hq takes over a day.
I've got the full database at our shop now, being updated constantly with
log shipping. A backup operation on a database that is in standby mode
fails. I can restore ... with recovery, backup, but then I can't continue t
o
log ship.
Even though it really isn't documented, "backup database dbname with standby
"= 'xxx.tuf' " works fine. I've used it to switch my secondary to primary
and so forth. I'm wondering if I can
restore ... with recovery
backup the database
backup with standby
This would give me a backup, and put the database back into standby so it
could continue to apply logs, but I'm pretty sure that the backup operation
would write to the log and cause the LSN's to get out of sync, and so the
next log restore would not happen correctly.
My other idea is to stop the server, copy the database and log file, and
then reattach these copies as a new database name. I'm pretty sure this idea
is going to work, but I have to stop my server, and it is a bit manual.
Is there anyway to backup a database while it is in standby or no recovery
mode?
thanksI doubt what you suggest would work, because the LSNs would be out of sync.
Most people use the normal backups of the orginal database, and do not worry
about backups of the log shipped db.. Will that not work for you?
Wayne Snyder, MCDBA, SQL Server MVP
Mariner, Charlotte, NC
www.mariner-usa.com
(Please respond only to the newsgroups.)
I support the Professional Association of SQL Server (PASS) and it's
community of SQL Server professionals.
www.sqlpass.org
"et" <et@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:96F275B6-D92F-46E9-99E3-996DCB59EADC@.microsoft.com...
> I'm running an offsite replica of our database using Log shipping.
> This is working very well, but I'd like a way to take a backup of the
> replica without
> breaking the log shipping. Making a backup at the hosting center and
copying
> to our development hq takes over a day.
> I've got the full database at our shop now, being updated constantly with
> log shipping. A backup operation on a database that is in standby mode
> fails. I can restore ... with recovery, backup, but then I can't continue
to
> log ship.
> Even though it really isn't documented, "backup database dbname with
standby
> "= 'xxx.tuf' " works fine. I've used it to switch my secondary to
primary
> and so forth. I'm wondering if I can
> restore ... with recovery
> backup the database
> backup with standby
> This would give me a backup, and put the database back into standby so it
> could continue to apply logs, but I'm pretty sure that the backup
operation
> would write to the log and cause the LSN's to get out of sync, and so the
> next log restore would not happen correctly.
> My other idea is to stop the server, copy the database and log file, and
> then reattach these copies as a new database name. I'm pretty sure this
idea
> is going to work, but I have to stop my server, and it is a bit manual.
> Is there anyway to backup a database while it is in standby or no recovery
> mode?
> thanks
>

Backup logs enterprise/restore standard?

We maintain a warm standby by backing up transaction logs on the production
machine, then restoring them to the warm standby. Both machines are
currently running 2000 Standard. If we upgrade the production machine to
Enterprise (we want to be able to allocate more than 2 GB memory), can we
keep restoring logs to Standard (so that we can defer the cost of upgrading
it until a later time)?
TIA
--
Scott NicholAll editions are binary on-disk compatible in SQL 2000. You can safely
restore a Standard Edition backup to an Enterprise Edition server. Your
"home-grown" log shipping will be just fine.
Geoff N. Hiten
Senior Database Administrator
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
"Scott Nichol" <reply_to_newsgroup@.scottnichol.com> wrote in message
news:uY7htr%23pFHA.3520@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> We maintain a warm standby by backing up transaction logs on the
> production
> machine, then restoring them to the warm standby. Both machines are
> currently running 2000 Standard. If we upgrade the production machine to
> Enterprise (we want to be able to allocate more than 2 GB memory), can we
> keep restoring logs to Standard (so that we can defer the cost of
> upgrading
> it until a later time)?
> TIA
> --
> Scott Nichol
>

Backup logs enterprise/restore standard?

We maintain a warm standby by backing up transaction logs on the production
machine, then restoring them to the warm standby. Both machines are
currently running 2000 Standard. If we upgrade the production machine to
Enterprise (we want to be able to allocate more than 2 GB memory), can we
keep restoring logs to Standard (so that we can defer the cost of upgrading
it until a later time)?
TIA
Scott Nichol
All editions are binary on-disk compatible in SQL 2000. You can safely
restore a Standard Edition backup to an Enterprise Edition server. Your
"home-grown" log shipping will be just fine.
Geoff N. Hiten
Senior Database Administrator
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
"Scott Nichol" <reply_to_newsgroup@.scottnichol.com> wrote in message
news:uY7htr%23pFHA.3520@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> We maintain a warm standby by backing up transaction logs on the
> production
> machine, then restoring them to the warm standby. Both machines are
> currently running 2000 Standard. If we upgrade the production machine to
> Enterprise (we want to be able to allocate more than 2 GB memory), can we
> keep restoring logs to Standard (so that we can defer the cost of
> upgrading
> it until a later time)?
> TIA
> --
> Scott Nichol
>

Backup logs enterprise/restore standard?

We maintain a warm standby by backing up transaction logs on the production
machine, then restoring them to the warm standby. Both machines are
currently running 2000 Standard. If we upgrade the production machine to
Enterprise (we want to be able to allocate more than 2 GB memory), can we
keep restoring logs to Standard (so that we can defer the cost of upgrading
it until a later time)?
TIA
--
Scott NicholAll editions are binary on-disk compatible in SQL 2000. You can safely
restore a Standard Edition backup to an Enterprise Edition server. Your
"home-grown" log shipping will be just fine.
--
Geoff N. Hiten
Senior Database Administrator
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
"Scott Nichol" <reply_to_newsgroup@.scottnichol.com> wrote in message
news:uY7htr%23pFHA.3520@.tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> We maintain a warm standby by backing up transaction logs on the
> production
> machine, then restoring them to the warm standby. Both machines are
> currently running 2000 Standard. If we upgrade the production machine to
> Enterprise (we want to be able to allocate more than 2 GB memory), can we
> keep restoring logs to Standard (so that we can defer the cost of
> upgrading
> it until a later time)?
> TIA
> --
> Scott Nichol
>

backup log in sqlserver 2000

Hi
I want to activate my standby database.
My primary database is fine and I want to continue to use it for some other
purpose.
My question :
Do I need to use no_truncate option during the remaining transactions backup
?
If I use NO_TRUNCATE option can I continue to use my primary database for
other work.
What is the difference between the regular T-LOG bkup and backup with
NO_TRUNCATE option.
Tks
MangeshNo, you shouldn't use NO_TRUNCATE. This is only there to support backing up
log of a corrupted
database. See http://www.karaszi.com/SQLServer/in...no_truncate.asp
Tibor Karaszi, SQL Server MVP
http://www.karaszi.com/sqlserver/default.asp
http://www.solidqualitylearning.com/
"Mangesh Deshpande" <MangeshDeshpande@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in me
ssage
news:49D98498-C81E-4B7C-B117-F8E5AB7B7E3B@.microsoft.com...
> Hi
> I want to activate my standby database.
> My primary database is fine and I want to continue to use it for some othe
r
> purpose.
> My question :
> Do I need to use no_truncate option during the remaining transactions back
up?
> If I use NO_TRUNCATE option can I continue to use my primary database for
> other work.
> What is the difference between the regular T-LOG bkup and backup with
> NO_TRUNCATE option.
> Tks
> Mangesh|||Hi,
Backup Log command is used to backup the transaction log when database is
accessible. NO_TRUNCATE option is used when a database is inaccessi le and
you need to take a log backup. See the detailed explanation by tibor:-
http://www.karaszi.com/SQLServer/in...no_truncate.asp
Thanks
Hari
SQL server MVP
"Mangesh Deshpande" <MangeshDeshpande@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:49D98498-C81E-4B7C-B117-F8E5AB7B7E3B@.microsoft.com...
> Hi
> I want to activate my standby database.
> My primary database is fine and I want to continue to use it for some
> other
> purpose.
> My question :
> Do I need to use no_truncate option during the remaining transactions
> backup?
> If I use NO_TRUNCATE option can I continue to use my primary database for
> other work.
> What is the difference between the regular T-LOG bkup and backup with
> NO_TRUNCATE option.
> Tks
> Mangesh

backup log in sqlserver 2000

Hi
I want to activate my standby database.
My primary database is fine and I want to continue to use it for some other
purpose.
My question :
Do I need to use no_truncate option during the remaining transactions backup?
If I use NO_TRUNCATE option can I continue to use my primary database for
other work.
What is the difference between the regular T-LOG bkup and backup with
NO_TRUNCATE option.
Tks
Mangesh
No, you shouldn't use NO_TRUNCATE. This is only there to support backing up log of a corrupted
database. See http://www.karaszi.com/SQLServer/inf...o_truncate.asp
Tibor Karaszi, SQL Server MVP
http://www.karaszi.com/sqlserver/default.asp
http://www.solidqualitylearning.com/
"Mangesh Deshpande" <MangeshDeshpande@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:49D98498-C81E-4B7C-B117-F8E5AB7B7E3B@.microsoft.com...
> Hi
> I want to activate my standby database.
> My primary database is fine and I want to continue to use it for some other
> purpose.
> My question :
> Do I need to use no_truncate option during the remaining transactions backup?
> If I use NO_TRUNCATE option can I continue to use my primary database for
> other work.
> What is the difference between the regular T-LOG bkup and backup with
> NO_TRUNCATE option.
> Tks
> Mangesh
|||Hi,
Backup Log command is used to backup the transaction log when database is
accessible. NO_TRUNCATE option is used when a database is inaccessi le and
you need to take a log backup. See the detailed explanation by tibor:-
http://www.karaszi.com/SQLServer/inf...o_truncate.asp
Thanks
Hari
SQL server MVP
"Mangesh Deshpande" <MangeshDeshpande@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:49D98498-C81E-4B7C-B117-F8E5AB7B7E3B@.microsoft.com...
> Hi
> I want to activate my standby database.
> My primary database is fine and I want to continue to use it for some
> other
> purpose.
> My question :
> Do I need to use no_truncate option during the remaining transactions
> backup?
> If I use NO_TRUNCATE option can I continue to use my primary database for
> other work.
> What is the difference between the regular T-LOG bkup and backup with
> NO_TRUNCATE option.
> Tks
> Mangesh

backup log in sqlserver 2000

Hi
I want to activate my standby database.
My primary database is fine and I want to continue to use it for some other
purpose.
My question :
Do I need to use no_truncate option during the remaining transactions backup?
If I use NO_TRUNCATE option can I continue to use my primary database for
other work.
What is the difference between the regular T-LOG bkup and backup with
NO_TRUNCATE option.
Tks
MangeshNo, you shouldn't use NO_TRUNCATE. This is only there to support backing up log of a corrupted
database. See http://www.karaszi.com/SQLServer/info_restore_no_truncate.asp
--
Tibor Karaszi, SQL Server MVP
http://www.karaszi.com/sqlserver/default.asp
http://www.solidqualitylearning.com/
"Mangesh Deshpande" <MangeshDeshpande@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:49D98498-C81E-4B7C-B117-F8E5AB7B7E3B@.microsoft.com...
> Hi
> I want to activate my standby database.
> My primary database is fine and I want to continue to use it for some other
> purpose.
> My question :
> Do I need to use no_truncate option during the remaining transactions backup?
> If I use NO_TRUNCATE option can I continue to use my primary database for
> other work.
> What is the difference between the regular T-LOG bkup and backup with
> NO_TRUNCATE option.
> Tks
> Mangesh|||Hi,
Backup Log command is used to backup the transaction log when database is
accessible. NO_TRUNCATE option is used when a database is inaccessi le and
you need to take a log backup. See the detailed explanation by tibor:-
http://www.karaszi.com/SQLServer/info_restore_no_truncate.asp
Thanks
Hari
SQL server MVP
"Mangesh Deshpande" <MangeshDeshpande@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:49D98498-C81E-4B7C-B117-F8E5AB7B7E3B@.microsoft.com...
> Hi
> I want to activate my standby database.
> My primary database is fine and I want to continue to use it for some
> other
> purpose.
> My question :
> Do I need to use no_truncate option during the remaining transactions
> backup?
> If I use NO_TRUNCATE option can I continue to use my primary database for
> other work.
> What is the difference between the regular T-LOG bkup and backup with
> NO_TRUNCATE option.
> Tks
> Mangesh

Backup into Standby mode...

Does anyone know if it is possible to backup a functional database, and then place it in standby mode capable of having logs restored on it? (SQL 2k on Win2k)

In a nutshell, this is what I am trying to do. Server A is live in production. Server B is new shiny powerful server waiting to become production. I want to backup our 60 gig DB copy it from A to B. Restore it on B. Stop SQL on A, copy new transaction logs to B, apply them, rename B to A and bring it up as the new production server. Now, here's the problem. I want to make the old A into the warm spare. To do this it has to be in standby mode ready to accept transaction logs. Restoring onto oldA is not an option because it is taking around 10 hours to do it, and we would be without a back up for that time. Not good.

So anyone know if this is possible, or have a better migration plan?The migration scheme you described sounds like an approach I've (sucessfully) used for DB machine migrations where downtime must be minimized.|||You can use the Log Shipping process to accomplish this project.
For more detail instruction on this, please refer to BOL. I can give you an example of restore a Full backup (from Server A) to Server B:

restore database MYDB
from disk='\\servername\bak\MYDB.BAK'
with MOVE MYDB_data' to 'H:\MSSQL\data\MYDB_Data.MDF',
MOVE MYDB_log' to 'E:\MSSQL\log\MYDB_log.LDF',
REPLACE, RESTART, STANDBY ='T:\MYDB_undo',
STATS

After this, the translog from Server A will automatically copied &
restore into Server B. After successfully setup the server B as a hot standby, you then switch the role between the 2 servers.|||We experienced many problems when changed that way, mainly because SQL refused to be renamed! (I'm talking abour SQL7, maybe SQL2K works better)

Also, we have problems with IP addresses, mirroring, SP's, etc...

What about replication?
I saw very impressive results in LANs and WANs.|||The first approach worked for us as well (though we had plenty of down time and only a 10GB database to work with.

Some notes:
1. Renaming with SQL 2K did not seem to be a problem for us, except for the Jobs. When we renamed the servers, the jobs retained the original name and were thus considered to be "owned" by another server. I could not enable them, disable them, delete them or otherwise modify them. I eventually went into the sysjobs table in MSDB and modified the "owner"

2. If you have a lot of users, watch out. It's easy to migrate the logins over using the DTS transfer package, but you then have to "link" the logins on the new server to the permissions they had on the old server. I'll dig through my notes, but there is a process to do this (and it's not well documented in the SQL 2000 log shipping in SQL BOL).

3. The Log Shipping concept proposed by someone else should also work well for you. Very well in fact. You still have to watch out for jobs, DTS packages and the logins, but if you need a minimum amount of downtime, then I would strongly consider this approach. It may not work from SQL 7 to SQL 2K.

Good luck,

Hugh Scott

Originally posted by Cesar Fraustro
We experienced many problems when changed that way, mainly because SQL refused to be renamed! (I'm talking abour SQL7, maybe SQL2K works better)

Also, we have problems with IP addresses, mirroring, SP's, etc...

What about replication?
I saw very impressive results in LANs and WANs.|||Good points there hmscott. Here is how I propose to get around those very issues...

1. We are planning on scripting out all the jobs prior to the move, and then recreating them once we hit the new machine.

2. I have scripted out the sysxlogins table to a table I created on another server. doing this, it is pretty simple to link the logins to the apporpriate database, which, when restored, has all the permissions associated with it.

3. I am still researching logshipping. We use a home grown solution that works pretty well, so we'll have to look at em both and go from there.

Finally, for anyone that is interested, it is possible to bring a database back up into standby mode by doing a backup log with standby command. you then apply that log you just backed up using a restore log with standby and from there, you can apply transaction logs.

Thanks for all your help.